September 24th, 2002
By Sean Hannity, Alan Colmes
FOX HANNITY & COLMES
HANNITY: Also coming up tonight, after six days, the Israeli siege on
Yasser Arafat's compound continues. Is this his last chance, or will the
Palestinian leader live to fight another day? Former Israeli Prime Minister
Ehud Barak will join us.
And has the quick fix of drugging your children to keep them in line
finally met its match? You'll meet a woman who's heading to court to take
on the school that she says turned her son into a different person.
But, first, a handful of Democrats in the House of Representatives are
joining together to oppose an American strike against Iraq.
Joining us now, one of those members of Congress, Illinois Congresswoman
Jan Schakowsky. Congresswoman, doesn't surprise me because, while Reagan
was ending the Cold War, Daschle, Gephardt, Gore were voting for a nuclear
freeze, nowhere to be found.
Eighty-five percent of you would have let him walk into Kuwait and control
65 percent of the world's oil reserves in the '90s, and a lot of Democrats
wanted to get rid of the CIA. So you guys really aren't tough on defense
at all.
REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D), ILLINOIS: You know what, Sean, if you're...
HANNITY: And you know what it comes down to?
SCHAKOWSKY: You know, Sean, if you're so worried about the nuclear threat,
then you know what? We ought to be doing something about the Russian stockpiles,
which have more...
HANNITY: We are!
SCHAKOWSKY: ..,. chance of getting into...
HANNITY: We are.
SCHAKOWSKY: No, we aren't doing enough.
HANNITY: Yes, we are.
SCHAKOWSKY: Look, I chair the -- I'm the ranking Democrat on the Government
Efficiency Committee. We had a hearing today. We're not doing enough, and
they also...
HANNITY: We could do more...
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, wait.
HANNITY: ... but we are doing things. We've had Curt Weldon on this
program and other representatives...
SCHAKOWSKY: Not...
HANNITY: ... this program dealing with that very issue.
SCHAKOWSKY: This is -- this is a diversion from the war on terrorism,
from defending against nuclear threats.
HANNITY: No, it's not.
SCHAKOWSKY: Look, we had a -- we had testimony today that a terrorist
with a backpack of the appropriate explosive device could walk into a nuclear
plant in the United States.
HANNITY: Thank God we can walk and chew gum at the same time, Congresswoman.
Here's my question for you. We've had on this program the man who ran Saddam's
nuclear program for 20-plus years, Saddam's bomb maker. He predicts Saddam
is within six months of having nuclear weapons. Now let me finish.
SCHAKOWSKY: And he...
HANNITY: Hang on.
SCHAKOWSKY: And he was...
HANNITY: Let me...
SCHAKOWSKY: ... before my committee today and was discredited.
HANNITY: Jan, let me finish my question, and then you can answer.
SCHAKOWSKY: OK.
HANNITY: Let's say he's right and you are wrong. We follow your advice.
We don't do anything. Saddam gets a nuclear weapon. He can blackmail the
world...
SCHAKOWSKY: OK. Let's...
HANNITY: ... or he can unleash this power.
SCHAKOWSKY: All right. Let's talk about that.
HANNITY: What do you say to the victims then when you're wrong?
SCHAKOWSKY: No. No. Oh, come on. We're not talking about the alternatives
being invading unilaterally, preemptively, and doing nothing. Far from
it.
All of us acknowledge Saddam Hussein is a threat, and that's why the
carefully crafted coalition that we've put together to fight the war on
terror is the same group, through the United Nations, that we ought to
put pressure --
I believe in coercive inspections so that we go in...
HANNITY: Congresswoman, coercive inspections...
SCHAKOWSKY: Yes.
HANNITY: Congresswoman, he's lied. He's kicked us out. He's played cat-and-mouse
games. Twelve long years. What is it...
SCHAKOWSKY: Right. Right.
HANNITY: What is it about you that you don't get it, you're being played...
SCHAKOWSKY: No. What is it...
HANNITY: ... for...
SCHAKOWSKY: ... about yes that the...
HANNITY: ... being very naive, Congresswoman, and, if you're wrong,
he gets that nuke in six months, and the world is blackmailed, where's
your...
SCHAKOWSKY: No. No. What...
HANNITY: Just like you guys didn't get it with the Cold -- you were
scared to death...
SCHAKOWSKY: No. Sean, can I say something?
HANNITY: ... Reagan would start World War III.
SCHAKOWSKY: Sean -- Sean, let me say something.
HANNITY: He ended the Cold War.
SCHAKOWSKY: What about yes doesn't the president understand? He went
before the United Nations, made a very compelling speech, and the answer
was, yes, we do think we ought to stand by those resolutions, and now...
COLMES: Congresswoman...
HANNITY: Twelve years of nothing.
COLMES: Congresswoman, it's Alan.
You know what amazes me? If you have the temerity to disagree with this
president, you're called naive. You're called a -- you're called -- some
will go so far as to call you unpatriotic. How dare you disagree with our
president? How dare you not walk in lockstep?
I want to know why more Democrats aren't speaking out as you are, as
Dennis Kucinich is...
HANNITY: Oh, boy.
COLMES: ... as Nancy Pelosi is.
SCHAKOWSKY: You know what?
COLMES: Why aren't more Democrats doing that?
HANNITY: Here we go.
SCHAKOWSKY: I'll tell you what. They are going home over the weekends
and hearing from their constituents. The majority of the communications
are no. I couldn't go home if I said I would vote for this resolution,
and I -- and I'm hearing from veterans. I'm hearing from very sophisticated
people.
COLMES: Right. And this is not to say...
SCHAKOWSKY: Look...
COLMES: ... we love Saddam Hussein.
SCHAKOWSKY: Absolutely not.
COLMES: This is not to say we think the guy...
HANNITY: Let's sing "Kumbayah."
COLMES: ... should be the Kiwanis Club man of the year, right?
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, you know, these are people who think -- can anyone
think we will be safer if the United States alone goes in? We -- you know
what?
The first thing that will happen is they'll use biological and chemical
weapons on Israel, who will appropriately attack back. The Middle East
will be in flames, and the Muslim and Arab world will be united against
us, and...
COLMES: We're going to talk to Ehud Barak about that in a moment.
Oh, yes. This idea -- we are talking about sending American men and
women off to war...
SCHAKOWSKY: Exactly.
COLMES: ... then post-war, a rebuilding, which has not yet been discussed.
SCHAKOWSKY: Not at all.
COLMES: What ever happened to the Powell doctrine of using overwhelming
force, having an exit strategy?
SCHAKOWSKY: It's been replaced...
COLMES: What has happened to the administration that they are now changing
what they said the rules of engagement should be?
SCHAKOWSKY: We -- it's been replaced by the Bush doctrine, which is
my way or the highway, going in with guns blazing, a cowboy kind of diplomacy,
and -- or not diplomacy, use of military force. Most Americans -- 60 percent
of them say that the United States should not go in alone. They are not
stupid.
COLMES: And let me ask you about Hamzi, the bomb maker that Sean referred
to. What did he say before your committee today? How was he discredited?
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, a number of people have said -- all of the experts
that have gone in have said that, yes, Saddam Hussein is interested in
developing weapons of -- nuclear weapons but that he is at least a year
but probably more. So...
HANNITY: Yes. Probably.
SCHAKOWSKY: But wait, Sean. We're not saying do nothing.
COLMES: Let her -- go ahead, Congressman.
HANNITY: Probably.
COLMES: Let her speak. Go ahead.
SCHAKOWSKY: We are not saying doing nothing -- do nothing. We are saying
unite the forces of the world who do...
HANNITY: And if you're wrong?
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, look, we're saying do something now but do it with
our allies. That's what we're saying.
COLMES: Right. So you're saying he was discredited?
SCHAKOWSKY: The report -- the reaction to him was that this gentleman
does not have recent experience in what is going on in Iraq. He doesn't
have the most up to date, and the experts who do say nuclear weapon is
much further away than he has said.
HANNITY: All right. Congresswoman, we're out of time. But I'll tell
you we do have allies. Maybe you're not paying attention. Saudi Arabian
bases, Turkey, Great Britain, Israel, and others getting on board every
day. So we are not alone.
SCHAKOWSKY: And we're going to dismantle the United Nations.
HANNITY: Congresswoman -- and then if we had to act alone, that would
be OK with me. But thank you for being with us.
SCHAKOWSKY: Thank you.
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