Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, Ninth District, IL
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Interview With Jan Schakowsky

September 24th, 2002

By Sean Hannity, Alan Colmes

FOX HANNITY & COLMES


HANNITY: Also coming up tonight, after six days, the Israeli siege on Yasser Arafat's compound continues. Is this his last chance, or will the Palestinian leader live to fight another day? Former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak will join us. 

And has the quick fix of drugging your children to keep them in line finally met its match? You'll meet a woman who's heading to court to take on the school that she says turned her son into a different person. 

But, first, a handful of Democrats in the House of Representatives are joining together to oppose an American strike against Iraq. 

Joining us now, one of those members of Congress, Illinois Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky. Congresswoman, doesn't surprise me because, while Reagan was ending the Cold War, Daschle, Gephardt, Gore were voting for a nuclear freeze, nowhere to be found. 

Eighty-five percent of you would have let him walk into Kuwait and control 65 percent of the world's oil reserves in the '90s, and a lot of Democrats wanted to get rid of the CIA. So you guys really aren't tough on defense at all. 

REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D), ILLINOIS: You know what, Sean, if you're... 

HANNITY: And you know what it comes down to? 

SCHAKOWSKY: You know, Sean, if you're so worried about the nuclear threat, then you know what? We ought to be doing something about the Russian stockpiles, which have more... 

HANNITY: We are! 

SCHAKOWSKY: ..,. chance of getting into... 

HANNITY: We are. 

SCHAKOWSKY: No, we aren't doing enough. 

HANNITY: Yes, we are. 

SCHAKOWSKY: Look, I chair the -- I'm the ranking Democrat on the Government Efficiency Committee. We had a hearing today. We're not doing enough, and they also... 

HANNITY: We could do more... 

SCHAKOWSKY: Well, wait. 

HANNITY: ... but we are doing things. We've had Curt Weldon on this program and other representatives... 

SCHAKOWSKY: Not... 

HANNITY: ... this program dealing with that very issue. 

SCHAKOWSKY: This is -- this is a diversion from the war on terrorism, from defending against nuclear threats. 

HANNITY: No, it's not. 

SCHAKOWSKY: Look, we had a -- we had testimony today that a terrorist with a backpack of the appropriate explosive device could walk into a nuclear plant in the United States. 

HANNITY: Thank God we can walk and chew gum at the same time, Congresswoman. Here's my question for you. We've had on this program the man who ran Saddam's nuclear program for 20-plus years, Saddam's bomb maker. He predicts Saddam is within six months of having nuclear weapons. Now let me finish. 

SCHAKOWSKY: And he... 

HANNITY: Hang on. 

SCHAKOWSKY: And he was... 

HANNITY: Let me... 

SCHAKOWSKY: ... before my committee today and was discredited. 

HANNITY: Jan, let me finish my question, and then you can answer. 

SCHAKOWSKY: OK. 

HANNITY: Let's say he's right and you are wrong. We follow your advice. We don't do anything. Saddam gets a nuclear weapon. He can blackmail the world... 

SCHAKOWSKY: OK. Let's... 

HANNITY: ... or he can unleash this power. 

SCHAKOWSKY: All right. Let's talk about that. 

HANNITY: What do you say to the victims then when you're wrong? 

SCHAKOWSKY: No. No. Oh, come on. We're not talking about the alternatives being invading unilaterally, preemptively, and doing nothing. Far from it. 

All of us acknowledge Saddam Hussein is a threat, and that's why the carefully crafted coalition that we've put together to fight the war on terror is the same group, through the United Nations, that we ought to put pressure -- 

I believe in coercive inspections so that we go in... 

HANNITY: Congresswoman, coercive inspections... 

SCHAKOWSKY: Yes. 

HANNITY: Congresswoman, he's lied. He's kicked us out. He's played cat-and-mouse games. Twelve long years. What is it... 

SCHAKOWSKY: Right. Right. 

HANNITY: What is it about you that you don't get it, you're being played... 

SCHAKOWSKY: No. What is it... 

HANNITY: ... for... 

SCHAKOWSKY: ... about yes that the... 

HANNITY: ... being very naive, Congresswoman, and, if you're wrong, he gets that nuke in six months, and the world is blackmailed, where's your... 

SCHAKOWSKY: No. No. What... 

HANNITY: Just like you guys didn't get it with the Cold -- you were scared to death... 

SCHAKOWSKY: No. Sean, can I say something? 

HANNITY: ... Reagan would start World War III. 

SCHAKOWSKY: Sean -- Sean, let me say something. 

HANNITY: He ended the Cold War. 

SCHAKOWSKY: What about yes doesn't the president understand? He went before the United Nations, made a very compelling speech, and the answer was, yes, we do think we ought to stand by those resolutions, and now... 

COLMES: Congresswoman... 

HANNITY: Twelve years of nothing. 

COLMES: Congresswoman, it's Alan. 

You know what amazes me? If you have the temerity to disagree with this president, you're called naive. You're called a -- you're called -- some will go so far as to call you unpatriotic. How dare you disagree with our president? How dare you not walk in lockstep? 

I want to know why more Democrats aren't speaking out as you are, as Dennis Kucinich is... 

HANNITY: Oh, boy. 

COLMES: ... as Nancy Pelosi is. 

SCHAKOWSKY: You know what? 

COLMES: Why aren't more Democrats doing that? 

HANNITY: Here we go. 

SCHAKOWSKY: I'll tell you what. They are going home over the weekends and hearing from their constituents. The majority of the communications are no. I couldn't go home if I said I would vote for this resolution, and I -- and I'm hearing from veterans. I'm hearing from very sophisticated people. 

COLMES: Right. And this is not to say... 

SCHAKOWSKY: Look... 

COLMES: ... we love Saddam Hussein. 

SCHAKOWSKY: Absolutely not. 

COLMES: This is not to say we think the guy... 

HANNITY: Let's sing "Kumbayah." 

COLMES: ... should be the Kiwanis Club man of the year, right? 

SCHAKOWSKY: Well, you know, these are people who think -- can anyone think we will be safer if the United States alone goes in? We -- you know what? 

The first thing that will happen is they'll use biological and chemical weapons on Israel, who will appropriately attack back. The Middle East will be in flames, and the Muslim and Arab world will be united against us, and... 

COLMES: We're going to talk to Ehud Barak about that in a moment. 

Oh, yes. This idea -- we are talking about sending American men and women off to war... 

SCHAKOWSKY: Exactly. 

COLMES: ... then post-war, a rebuilding, which has not yet been discussed. 

SCHAKOWSKY: Not at all. 

COLMES: What ever happened to the Powell doctrine of using overwhelming force, having an exit strategy? 

SCHAKOWSKY: It's been replaced... 

COLMES: What has happened to the administration that they are now changing what they said the rules of engagement should be? 

SCHAKOWSKY: We -- it's been replaced by the Bush doctrine, which is my way or the highway, going in with guns blazing, a cowboy kind of diplomacy, and -- or not diplomacy, use of military force. Most Americans -- 60 percent of them say that the United States should not go in alone. They are not stupid. 

COLMES: And let me ask you about Hamzi, the bomb maker that Sean referred to. What did he say before your committee today? How was he discredited? 

SCHAKOWSKY: Well, a number of people have said -- all of the experts that have gone in have said that, yes, Saddam Hussein is interested in developing weapons of -- nuclear weapons but that he is at least a year but probably more. So... 

HANNITY: Yes. Probably. 

SCHAKOWSKY: But wait, Sean. We're not saying do nothing. 

COLMES: Let her -- go ahead, Congressman. 

HANNITY: Probably. 

COLMES: Let her speak. Go ahead. 

SCHAKOWSKY: We are not saying doing nothing -- do nothing. We are saying unite the forces of the world who do... 

HANNITY: And if you're wrong? 

SCHAKOWSKY: Well, look, we're saying do something now but do it with our allies. That's what we're saying. 

COLMES: Right. So you're saying he was discredited? 

SCHAKOWSKY: The report -- the reaction to him was that this gentleman does not have recent experience in what is going on in Iraq. He doesn't have the most up to date, and the experts who do say nuclear weapon is much further away than he has said. 

HANNITY: All right. Congresswoman, we're out of time. But I'll tell you we do have allies. Maybe you're not paying attention. Saudi Arabian bases, Turkey, Great Britain, Israel, and others getting on board every day. So we are not alone. 

SCHAKOWSKY: And we're going to dismantle the United Nations. 

HANNITY: Congresswoman -- and then if we had to act alone, that would be OK with me. But thank you for being with us. 

SCHAKOWSKY: Thank you. 
 

 

 
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