From The O'Reilly Factor:

THE O'REILLY FACTOR 8:43 PM EST

May 25, 2006 Thursday

O'REILLY: Continuing now with our lead story, the Senate passes the immigration bill 62-36. Now it goes to the House, where they're going to try to sort everything out.

Joining us now from Washington, New York Congressman Peter King and Anthony Weiner. All right, Congressman Weiner, where am I going wrong here? I believe the American people overwhelmingly want a secure border first and then we'll go look at the amnesty and the employer sanctions and all of that. Am I wrong?

REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: I think American people want us to walk and chew gum at the same time. We have to do both things. This is a false choice to say you've got to either do the border or do a program to earn legalization. We have to do both.

I mean, look, this is one of the problems we have. When we considered this in the House, we did nothing more than a fence for part of the border and not even the whole border. We've under funded the amount of border patrol. We have to do all of those things better. I don't dispute that one bit.

But at the same time we have to show a realistic path that we're striving to deal with what is arguably even a bigger problem, which is 11 million some odd people in illegal limbo

O'REILLY: Did you support moving the guard to the border, Tony?

WEINER: I actually did vote in favor of that.

O'REILLY: You did?

WEINER: I did actually. I believe that it's not the answer, but...

O'REILLY: Absolutely, but it helps. It helps.

WEINER: Yes.

O'REILLY: Now, Congressman King, people are going to be interested to know what you guys are going to do that now you get this bill. It's obviously too soft. It's not going to pass muster with the American people.

So you're going to take the Senate bill and you've already passed your own very tough House bill and then you're going to meld the two? Is that what's going to happen?

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: It's going to be very difficult to do. I disagree with Anthony. I don't think you can grant legalization or amnesty to 11 million illegals at the same time that you try to secure the border. Because once you grant that amnesty legalization, that continues to serve as a magnet for other illegals to come across the border because it shows you're not serious.

O'REILLY: Yes, but does the Senate -- the Senate -- Congressman, the Senate built that in by saying if you're here less than two years and we catch you, you've got to go back. So anybody here less than two years is going back.

So if they did, that was one of the few smart things I saw in the bill. They said we understand it's going to be a magnet. Because we are giving a lot of people a break, but we're not going to give a break to you, if you haven't been here for more than two years.

KING: Bill, it's legalizing 10 or 11 illegal immigrants and by doing that they're sending the message like in 1986 where we said there was going to be border security. We need a full-court press to secure the border. We haven't been able to do it in 20 years. As long as that magnet is there and unless we really crack down on employers, it's going to be almost impossible to secure that border.

O'REILLY: OK.

KING: ... going to be tough enough.

O'REILLY: But you've got to try, right? You've got to try to work it out in the Senate. You have to try.

KING: Well, we'll try. Granting legalization or amnesty is not going to work. I could never support that. This is going to undercut the entire purpose of the bill, and make border enforcement impossible.

WEINER: That's not true. Part of the purpose of the bill dealing with the 11 million, is some of them could truly be problems to our country and we want to find them. Some are hard working and some aren't. How do you separate the wheat from the chaff? We have to have some way.

The president handed the same package to the House Republicans. He said, we'll deal with that some other time. Well, I want to know which of those 11 million are working, are in our community doing good things and which are troublemakers?

O'REILLY: OK.

WEINER: The only way to do that is to offer some the opportunity.

O'REILLY: I still don't understand. Look, you guys do this every day, OK.

I still do not understand, Congressman Weiner. The Senate bill passed tonight. It comes back to you guys now. You guys are going to kick it around, right? Do you think you're going to get a compromise that you send back to the Senate? Do you think it's going to happen?

WEINER: If you're asking me that, I don't know. Recently, Speaker Hastert and people like Peter King have said we are not moving at all on an earned path to legalization or on trying to find who the two terrorists are in that 11 million people. If you don't do that -- all I'm saying, let's debate on a couple of these issues. Let's have a true democratic debate.

These are complex issues. You focus on them on a lot on most nights. I'm willing to wager you this. The House Republicans will not give us a chance to vote on these issues.

KING: And let me just say, this shows the misguided nature of some Democrats. Anthony is saying we should legalize 11 million illegal immigrants because that way the terrorists will voluntarily come forward and we'll know who they are. That is a totally false...

WEINER: No, no. You misunderstand. You misunderstand. When we have 11 people stepping forward to get credentials to get here legally, then you're only searching for 200,000 or 300,000.

O'REILLY: Congressman, it is true, it is true -- Congressman King, to be fair, it is true that anybody who applies for citizenship has to go through a rigorous background check. So...

KING: If you're thinking we're going to be able to process 11 million people, find out when they came, how much taxes they pay and at the same time find which among them happen to be terrorists that may not come forward at the same time trying to secure the border. This is the same nonsense that was dealt to the American people 20 years ago. Didn't work out. We have to be realistic.

(CROSSTALK)

O'REILLY: Congressman King, just so I understand -- I have to take a break and then we're going to come back with both of you guys and talk about the press conference. But you basically don't have any confidence the federal government could do what they want to do?

KING: Not at the same time. You have to secure the border first. Otherwise it's not going to work.

O'REILLY: All right. So OK, we're going to bring you guys back for an analysis of the Bush/Blair Iraq press conference. Whether they bought it or not.

And then Geraldo on those two vicious killers caught just a few hours ago. These people are off-the-chart evil if they did what they're accused of doing. Right back.

O'REILLY: Continuing now with Congressmen Anthony Weiner and Peter King. And we're going to analyze the Bush-Blair press conference on Iraq.

Bill Plante of CBS had, I think, the best question to Congressman King, when he said to President Bush, what makes you, Mr. President, feel sure that the new government in Iraq will have any more success in controlling the insurgent chaos and violence than the old, interim government had? President Bush really didn't have an answer.

KING: Well, first, let me just say, Bill, as an American, I greatly value (ph) Tony Blair. Just want to put that on the record. An outstanding leader and a great ally of the United States.

As far as the question that Bill Plante asked, there is a difference between interim government and the permanent government. And I think that has to mean something. I think it's going to mean a lot. But we'll see. I think it is very significant to have a permanent government in place.

O'REILLY: But are you confident -- are you confident, and you know, you're on the security committee, Congressman King, and the Bush administration has tied Iraq into our security here. Are you confident that this can get under control in the next year or so?

KING: I am reasonably confident. But obviously, we have to wait and see. I'm more confident today than I was before the government was formed. And I think it can do the job. We have to support it and work with it, but there's no easy answer here and there's no guarantee.

O'REILLY: OK.

KING: But I am more confident than I was before.

O'REILLY: Now Congressman Weiner, Tony Blair had a challenge for people who dissent from the Iraq war and said basically they don't understand the stakes. They don't know what's at stake here. Do you agree?

WEINER: Oh, yes, I do. I think a lot of people need to get refocused on the idea that 140,000 American lives are at stake and that our men and women have become the target for about 4/5 of all the attacks there.

What are we doing? We have won in many ways, and that's why I think we should get out now. We stood up this government. We arrested Saddam Hussein. We've essentially -- we've built roads and hospitals, got their oil production back up. When do our troops come home?

O'REILLY: Well, let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. If we pull out of there, and the insurgency takes over the government, the government that is there now, elected government collapses under the weight of the violence, doesn't it send a message to everyone in the world, every terrorist in the world, that they won in Iraq?

WEINER: Well, you know, in the words of Benjamin Franklin, you know, we gave them a democracy. Now let's see if they can keep it. What is our obligation as Americans?

O'REILLY: I know, that's theory. Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's theory. That's theory. We gave them a chance and then we pull them out. But I'm very worried -- I'm very worried that this -- if we pull out and that collapses, that's a loss pinned on us. That emboldens terrorists.

WEINER: From the perspective of all of our losses there, from the perspective of the violence that's going on there, it's hard to imagine that chaos could be much worse than this from our perspective.

This is what we need to do. You know, Bush and Blair -- and by the way, between them on that stage, there was a 50 percent approval rating. They're both being dragged down by this, because they're not articulating a plan for how we get out. That's what I care about, the 140,000 American men and women. I am tired of...

O'REILLY: It might be a little shortsighted, with all due respect. If you -- if you have a loss in Iraq -- and Bush said this tonight -- that is going to be perceived by terrorists all over the world as a major victory and embolden them. And they're not going to stop.

WEINER: We are losing now, Bill. Bill, we are...

O'REILLY: I don't think we're losing now.

WEINER: We have succeeded -- we have succeeded up until now. Why -- why grab a loss from the jaws of victory?

O'REILLY: Give them another year. They're going to be stronger for another year. We give them the other year. I'm going to go to Congressman King.

KING: Bill, we're not losing and we don't judge success by popularity polls. Harry Truman's poll numbers were 21 percent in 1952 because of the Korean War. Everyone now says that was one of his greatest decisions.

And the fact is, if we pull out, it's going to cause great harm to the United States, not just the Iraqis but the United States. That would allow the Shiites in Iran, to move in with theocracy in Iraq. It would be disastrous for the Middle East, disaster for Israel, disaster for Jordan and a disaster -- and a disaster for the United States of America.

WEINER: The Iraqi people have to step up.

O'REILLY: Give them a little -- give them a little more time.

KING: And that's why Democrats want to cut and run. And that's why...

WEINER: The Iraqi people have to...

O'REILLY: All right. I've got to go.

WEINER: ... step up. Our troops have done their job. Bring them home.

O'REILLY: Gentlemen, thanks very much.

KING: ... and disaster for the Middle East, including Israel.

O'REILLY: All right. Thanks very much, gentlemen.